Download: Zola Jesus “Clay Bodies”

(from The Spoils out now on Sacred Bones)

Nika Roza and Freddy Ruppert must have met on some dark wave in the post-goth apocalypse. She lends her howling to his Former Ghosts, but as Zola Jesus, she lays down her own chilly rhythms and haunts their lattices with operatic breath. Darkness spreads its surreal shadows. This interview by Daiana Feuer.

What harsh realities does a country girl from Wisconsin grow up with?
Nika Roza: Definitely the climate. The cold is unbelievable. I try not to complain. Growing up in a hundred acres of woods, I didn’t have TV or internet. The reality of learning about yourself—and I am not a hippie about it at all. When you live around a lot of people in a city and that synthesized stimulation, you can get lost in that—the hustle and bustle. When you grow up in the country you have nothing to stimulate you but what you seek. If you want to be with people you have to go out and find them! I spent a lot of time with my family. I have one brother and my parents are still together. My mom has eleven brothers and sisters. We are super close.
What real-life texture most resembles the feel of your music?
Nika Roza: I really like the idea of metal and steel. That was more Spoils. What I like is when sound textures interweave and some come in and out like waves. But I am not going to go ‘ocean’ because that doesn’t suit my whole Wisconsin perspective. I usually record in the winter because I am holed up. It’s cold outside but warm inside with the heater and blankets. A lot of the songs are cold but in the coldness you find warmth. Winter has a lot to do with it. Being from the Midwest, you experience a lot of harsh climate—living in the country, there are a lot of harsh realities that teach you how to deal with things. I don’t just do what’s enjoyable, I do what’s important. It’s hard to make big songs when you are one little girl. It’s rough to get to the point, musically. You can tell what is natural to someone. The type of drum, the synth … it’s so intrinsic. It can’t be changed. You like what you like but what comes out is what is you. I will always have intense beats and have an epic sound structure. I think if you listen to someone’s music—which is an intimate thing—if you are certain that is a true representation of how they feel artistically and they are not emulating anything, if that’s them right out there—that is ballsy. I am way into it, if it’s honest.
Did you hunt growing up?
Nika Roza: No, but I’ll tell you something funny. My dad was a hunter so there would constantly be animal parts all over the place. He’d be out in the forest and bring back deer heads hoping that animals would eat the flesh and leave a skull. But it wouldn’t happen. There would just be a deer head hanging from a tree branch you could literally bump into. I never hunted. My father still hunts. He’s a survivalist about it. ‘I don’t hunt for game, I hunt for living.’ He’s very Emerson about it.
Have you eaten a lot of deer?
Nika Roza: Yeah! Our milk was from the neighbor’s cow. I am not a country bumpkin but this is how we live. We ate deer and pheasant and venison and all this meat that my dad would go out and kill.
So you’re a goth chick from the woods?
Nika Roza: People might assume I am a flower-dress hippie girl hearing my story. I don’t know.
How did you find music?
Nika Roza: My father would listen to Oingo Boingo, Dead Kennedys and Squeeze. That was my youth. When I was older, I found out about the Residents and Throbbing Gristle. I was exposed to new wave and stuff like that. That helped create an interest in seeking out far-out stuff.
Why don’t you believe in God?
Nika Roza: It’s how I was raised. I respect for people to believe in God or religion. In the end, it’s your life. If you are going to live for someone else, you have to live according to what you think is fulfilling, not what you’re told. If there were physical evidence then maybe I would consider it. But it’s such an intense thing. It’s a whole philosophical essay I would have to fucking write. The Bible and all these books written by people, they are stories—compelling, yes, and they teach you about life and how to take care of people. Taking them for fact, that’s really naive. They are great stories to teach moral structure, but they are just stories. Using Jesus in my name isn’t necessarily supposed to be a strong statement. I respect religion and I know people do need it, but it’s a weird phenomenon in our world. It’s so weird. I wonder if animals have religion.
Do you believe men and women are different?
Nika Roza: This is tough because I go back and forth. They’re obviously different because of hormones and things. But there’s an obvious pink elephant that society has created—these differences between men and women. Men must be strong and women must be homemakers. I think we are the same mentally and emotionally but we’ve grown up in the same world with the same societal influence. That makes us different. We grow up differently based on where we live and what our parents taught us as well. I don’t think we are intrinsically different. It’s all about how we were raised. I am the queen of ‘how we were raised.’ I came from a small town in the middle of nowhere. Me and my brother were raised really well. People who aren’t raised well are raised with bad ethics and have bad stigmas about relationships. I am in an extremely great relationship and I think we value each other equally. And he’s a male—ha! But I have been in bad relationships too.
Being a student of philosophy, what would you say is the most enduring philosophical question?
Nika Roza: ‘Why do I keep myself alive?’ That’s the general question, because at any moment you can decide not to be here. Why do you keep going? How do you get up? Is it out of fear? That is the one thing people will never know. I have something to keep me going. Before music I didn’t know what the point was, though. There were times in life where I didn’t know. Why do I keep going? Why do I keep doubting? You just have to be really confident in what you do and if you’re not, you have to convince yourself with what you wanna do and teach yourself to believe. You can’t let anyone else interfere with what you want. When I grow up, what do I wanna be? What’s my backup plan? People always ask. You can’t doubt what you want to do. It sounds like Oprah over here, but yes, you gotta go for what you want.
What is your philosophy?
Nika Roza: I believe in not avoiding things you’re afraid of. Especially really dark things. There are a lot of people that won’t want to experience certain music or books or movies. I am all about challenging that and challenging what makes you feel disgusted. Challenging what disgusts you. Challenging what you think has or hasn’t been done. Just challenge. I wake up and go to sleep making music. Some people get into music to have fun and party. Maybe it’s my ethics, but this is so serious to me that it’s not just about having fun and partying and getting people to have a good time. It’s so personal. If you are going to contribute something to society, it has to last. If it is going to be ephemeral, don’t waste your time. I don’t want people to think I am totally intense. I am a total dork. But when it comes to music, I am serious. When you put yourself out there it is a very vulnerable thing.
Are you good at sports?
Nika Roza: Awful. I am so bad. I was in remedial gym class in high school with all the people that weren’t cut out for real gym. No one else was able-bodied except for me. I was the shining star in that class!
How would you describe your music to a child?
Nika Roza: I tried to do this with my cousin. She’s an aspiring goth. I am trying to turn her into a weirdo. ‘It’s like pop music but it’s really noisy and there’s opera.’ I would probably say, ‘This sounds like Hannah Montana’ and let their minds adjust. ‘This is what Hannah Montana can also sound like.’ There’s got to be a Nickelodeon Black. If you turn on TV you see people yelling things and vomiting colors. But when I was growing up seeing cartoons they would have a lot of snot and bodily fluids and weird things. What is going to happen to this new generation? But I would tell the 7-year-old child it was the Apocalypse. You know what, fuck that. There’s nudity and language—let them see it! If not, they will turn into bigger creeps. You have to expose children to stuff like that. You gotta be ready.

ZOLA JESUS WITH POCAHAUNTED AND SISSY SPACEK PLUS DJ DEAN SPUNT ON SUN., JAN. 10, AT THE SMELL, 247 S. MAIN ST., DOWNTOWN. 9 PM / $5 / ALL AGES. THESMELL.ORG. ZOLA JESUS’ THE SPOILS IS OUT NOW ON SACRED BONES. VISIT ZOLA JESUS AT ZOLAJESUS.COM OR MYSPACE.COM/ZOLAJESUS.

Download: Former Ghosts “Hold On”

(from Fleurs out now on Upset the Rhythm)

Thank technology for letting three musicians in three different parts of the country be a band together. Former Ghosts is Freddy Ruppert (This Song Is A Mess But So Am I), Jamie Stewart (Xiu Xiu), and Nika Roza (Zola Jesus). It’s a bit goth, but in a sort of uplifting way that flourishes on the album Fleurs and Rupert bears his soul with Shakespearean style. Make their L.A. show your Halloween destination. This interview by Daiana Feuer.

What kind of factory would you like to work in?
Freddy Ruppert (vocals/synthesizers): Maybe a factory that manufactures cakes—a baking factory. I’d work on the cupcake line. As the cupcakes come down the conveyor belt, I’d have to pour the frosting on.
The sounds on ‘Us And Now’ remind me of a factory, which is why I asked.
Freddy Ruppert: We all grew up on a lot of ’80s goth and industrial stuff, so the weird sounds come from that influence. I guess it’s surprising that I’d say a cupcake factory, but I think the record kind of mixes the sweet with the dark.
What song reps the sweet?
Freddy Ruppert: Probably ‘Unfolding’ or ‘Us And Now.’ All the songs are kinda love songs aimed for a particular person I was insanely head over heels for. There wasn’t a plan to release them. They were written in a tumultuous time when things were going badly between us and given to her as presents while we were going through this rough stuff.
What made you decide to share them with a band and release them?
Freddy Ruppert: I quit my old band, This Song Is A Mess But So Am I, because I couldn’t handle it anymore. I didn’t do music for two years then I met her and started writing and put the songs on a blog and I’d take them down after she heard the songs. I can’t justify their existence, but this record label wanted to release them, so that’s how it came together. Me and Jamie had been friends for a long time. We were talking about starting something forever. Nika, I really like her voice so I asked her to sing and then asked her to join. But it’s hard for me to justify making it public. Other than hoping to relate to someone else, if that makes sense. I guess the girl was my muse at the time. Making it public is hoping that someone can relate to having that sort of depth and suffering and confusion.
Is there hope in it?
Freddy Ruppert: It’s hard to say. At the time of writing them, a lot of the songs were hopeful. It always felt like I was crazy—on the verge of blooming or withering. Now looking back on them they don’t seem so hopeful. They’re dark, but there’s some hope trapped in there for someone to find. I have a problem with making things too personal. But that’s how I am. I don’t have a gauge or barrier for that. And that is a problem but maybe it’s also a good thing? I think a lot of the songs have a sense of desperation. It was like, ‘I am holding on to this—why aren’t you holding on to this?’ Love is a crazy thing. It skews a lot of stuff. You get wrapped up in it. It almost takes over. I don’t know how to explain it. It’s hard to know—you know how you feel but the way someone else feels could be not as strong or stronger.
Do you compose songs structurally or organically?
Freddy Ruppert: Kinda structurally. I usually have an idea in my mind, but I approach it musically first. I set the music then I go lyrically. It’s compartmentalized. I put the structure and then I mail it to Jamie and Nika and they add in their parts. Lyrics and content stuff is more organic—based on feelings—but the piecing together of the sounds is more structural.
‘A white sheet descends over our bodies and I watch it from a distance.’ What’s that line about? Have you ever had an out-of-body experience?
Freddy Ruppert: Not so much out of body but a feeling of seeing yourself in a certain way—or in the future with someone else that you’re with in the present. Being in this moment where you are in love and captured by them and you can see yourself and this person out of your body, experiencing something else. Not necessarily floating above my body. I have a tendency to romanticize the future. That line is about from a distance seeing your relationship come apart and hoping it can be brought back to life. Like lifting a white sheet off a dead body. Seeing the relationship die.
Are you sad or do you connect with sad? Are you Etta James or Muddy Waters?
Freddy Ruppert: I would say Etta James. I think it kind of becomes a problem when I play live. It can be cathartic to a point but then it can be painful to relive. It’s a fine line. The songs are all personal expressions of my own life. So I am more Etta James. My main concern is surviving through the day.
Why the abrupt ending for ‘Choices’?
Freddy Ruppert: I guess that song is heavy. It was like I was waiting while she was sorting herself out—and I am just waiting and waiting. I feel like that crazy build at the ending—it’s this intense thing of hoping. It represents a thought process that builds up but cuts off. ‘I am waiting and going through all this stuff but you’re not realizing it.’ Then it’s just cut and that’s it. And then what do I do with that? What do I do when it’s gone?
When something can’t be put in words, does the music pick up where the lyrics can’t go?
Freddy Ruppert: Some people write crazy lyrics and the music might be happy. But music should also be representative of the emotion being expressed. When I write a song I know what the song is about. So the emotion and feeling I want to express is there and I need the music to express it. The medium is the message in a way. The emotion would be lost without the music conveying that. For me, they are intertwined.
How did you get Jamie and Nika’s contributions if they don’t live in L.A.?
Freddy Ruppert: I live in L.A., Nika lives in Madison, and Jamie lives in Durham. For ‘In Earth’s Palm’ and ‘Bull And Ram’ and ‘I Wave,’ I sent them music and Jamie did the lyrics for his and Nika did hers. For ‘I Wave,’ me and Jamie worked together. Then I sent the music to Nika and she put in her part. It worked out that their lyrics fit the theme of the record. We just seem to work together well. Nika is completely unbelievable. The first song I sent her was the last song, ‘This Is My Last Goodbye.’ When she sent it back I was like, ‘Please join the band!’ I am completely in love with her voice. She has these moments when it comes across vulnerable but when she lets loose, it’s this really powerful thing. I’m so excited to work in depth with them for the next album—in the same room. I hope she will sing more. Jamie is here now so we can practice though Nika can’t do the tour with us. Maybe we could set up a Powerbook and do a video conference with her projected on the wall so she could sing!
If someone unearthed Fleurs post-apocalypse, what vision of the past would it deliver?
Freddy Ruppert: My biggest fear is looking like a crazy pathetic person who obsessed over a girl. I would rather them see it as a romantic gesture rather than pathetic. Something that captures a past romance. In terms of music, I think the sounds are strange­—at times they are pop melodies but dissonant and off-putting in moments. If they never heard music before, maybe that would be unfortunate.

FORMER GHOSTS WITH THE L.A. LADIES’ CHOIR, POCAHAUNTED AND MORE ON SAT., OCT. 31, AT SYNCHRONICITY SPACE, 4306 MELROSE AVE., LOS ANGELES. 8 PM / COST TBA / ALL AGES. SYNCSPACELA.COM. FORMER GHOSTS’ FLEURS IS OUT NOW ON UPSET THE RHYTHM. VISIT FORMER GHOSTS AT FORMERGHOSTS.COM OR MYSPACE.COM/FORMERGHOSTSSLEEP.