Stream: The Heptones “Book Of Rules”

The Heptones’ Leroy Sibbles touched more than the majority of Studio One’s hit songs, whether in his own band or as the obfuscated group of studio musicians known variously as Sound Dimension or the Soul Investigators or as the man who played the bass on classics by the Abyssinians or Dennis Brown. He will be leading the Lions at Dub Club. This interview by Chris Ziegler.

When was the last time you visited L.A.?
Leroy Sibbles (bass/vocals): A long time man, a long time.
Did you get to visit Disneyland?
I’ve never been.
Do you want to go?
Oh yeah, man—any invitation—I’ll take you up, man! I want to go.
Is it true that the first time you ever met Toots of later Maytals fame he tried to sell you weed around the corner?
No, it’s not like that. He asked me to go buy a gram of weed for him—the other way around!
What was it like first meeting people like Toots and Jackie Mittoo and the Abyssianians and all the people who’d all becomes very famous later?
It was exciting ‘cause when you are young almost everything is exciting and new. After you grow up then you got to find stuff to really create new interest because you’ve seen it all. But growing up, everything is of high interest and plays a special part in your development, you know?
What’s the first moment in your musical career where you couldn’t believe what was happening to you?
It was the first time I heard my voice on the radio. The very first time. I was running around—I ran through Trench Town. I was like, ‘Hey, listen to that—that’s me there!’ That was the most exciting day of my life. Even to this day, nothing has ever topped that.
At Studio One, who was the best musician to spend an entire day with in the studio?
In the beginning, the most important person in the music at Studio One when I got there—the most important to me—was Jackie Mittoo. Oh yeah, he was super fantastic, man.
Didn’t he used to play two keyboards at once?
I forgot that he did that! He would do three things. A piano in one hand. A piano on the left hand and on the right hand he would be playing the melody of the song and on the foot pedal he would be playing the bass.
What kind of things did he teach you?
Almost like everything. Just being next to these guys and hearing them and watching them do their thing was a learning experience.
You were in the Studio One house band for so long—what songs do people know that you played on?
Oh yeah, man. We can start with ‘Satta Massa Ganna.’ ‘Declaration of Rights’ and ‘Pass The Dutchie’—that was originally another one called ‘Full Up.’ I did ‘Queen of the Minstrels.’ There was a group called the Mad Lads—they did a song called ‘Ten To One.’ All throughout the studio, I was recording for people who were out there on the streets. ‘Drifter,’ that was another big song. There’s so much songs, man—‘Freedom Blues.’ ‘Nanny Goat.’
How fast were you doing this?
Five songs per day. Every day—Monday to Friday. We had a lot of songs in there!
Did you get any credit?
No credit. I would say at least 60 to 65% of Studio One hit songs are mine. Albums too! Each album—remember No Man Is An Island by Dennis Brown? That’s one of the biggest. I played on that whole album. I played on John Holt’s Rob And Cheat You album. And a lot of the arrangements are mine. I was self taught. And I learned a lot from being around the studio there. I have a musical ear. I would say I’m born with that gift. If I hear something, I can figure music around it.
Would the musicians ever resist since you were so young?
After they saw what I could do, no. I think being the lead singer and lead arranger and vocalist they knew I had the talent. I was chosen by Jackie Mittoo. He picked me to come play this. I was 17 or 18—somewhere around there. They were all young guys—we were in the same age group. Fil Callendar on drums, Robbie Lyn on keyboards… After Jackie left, we were the guys left doing the stuff in the studio and they all looked up to me. I was the real roots guy down there. They were all midtown or uptown—I was the real roots guy, so I had the ideas. Because when Jackie Mittoo left—he was the arranger—and they went for Ernest Ranglin, and Ernest Ranglin came with jazz. It wasn’t roots—wasn’t what they were looking for! And they went for another guy Richard Ace—another jazz oriented kind of person and they couldn’t do it.
So they came to you?
I started laying some tracks for myself—for the Heptones. Earlier songs like ‘I Shall Be Released’ and another one that I did—‘Sweet Talking.’ No one really went and said, ‘Well, want you to do this.’ But I found myself in there at the controller picking the singers at the audition process and then Monday through Friday I would be there recording these people.
People off the street like you used to be?
People off the street would come in on Sunday and we’d listen to them and we’d lay something down if they had something going. Cornell Campbell, the Mad Lads—when I hear them I was like, ‘Yep, these are guys I want to work with.’ People like Burning Spear. They’d all come—right in the yard of the studio grounds!
How did you break it to them if it wasn’t going to work?
I tell them the truth. If I think you have something but you need to work on it some more. Or maybe the songs are good but they aren’t what we’re looking for so go write some other songs and come back. When Coxsone used to do auditions, he would hear some guy that he didn’t like and he would say, ‘Come back in six years time.’ Six years. You know he’s telling them don’t come back, you know. ‘Seven years!’
How did you know what you were looking for?
You could hear the guys who would. You got the ear for this thing. When the guy was approaching you, you knew it right away, man. There’s no easy answer. But if they have consistency and if they have the writing, you know—if it was what’s happening with the times, if they come with that, then that’s it. If he’s performing while he’s singing. If he was singing on four or five songs. Because there would be guys with only one song. And if he can’t sing another song, maybe he can’t fill that writing gap.
Who was somebody that you always wanted to work with that you never got a chance to?
Back then—it’s been a long time now. Back then I being a bass man, we used to do harmonies. We used to be covering so much material in the music, you know? I was arranging, writing, doing the horns—arranging the way the song should move. The only part that wasn’t so nice was not being able to get paid for what I was doing. Even getting recognized—even recognition because when these albums on the jacket, Coxsone would not put who the arranger was, or put himself sometimes. We the musicians should be getting credit. We should be the ones getting reimbursed. But no one told us the right way to go about this. It’s all messed up. I’ve been getting a small amount of royalty from the Island Record deal that we did. Yeah, right now with Atlantic, I’m still paid royalty. Every now and then I get a check and I’m grateful.
When you recorded with Lee Perry, he was wearing an astronaut suit—is that true?
A lie, man. He was so weird he could have wear it but he didn’t when I was around.

THE HEPTONES BACKED BY THE LIONS ON WED., JUNE 24, AT DUB CLUB AT THE ECHOPLEX, 1154 GLENDALE BLVD., ECHO PARK. 9PM / $10-$15 / 18+. ATTHEECHO.COM. LEROY SIBBLES AND THE LIONS WILL RELEASE THE ‘PICTURE’ 45 SOON. VISIT LEROY SIBBLES AT LEROYSIBBLES.COM, THE HEPTONES.COM OR MYSPACE.COM/THEHEPTONES.

What do you bring to the studio when you record?
Incense. Incense and stones. Incense and rock stone and water. The water brings everything. Water wash the eyes and water quench your thirst and water is a main blessing. Your air is a total blessing because without air you cannot breathe. And water is a blessing because it puts God in you, and change you from your evil ways and makes you repent. Then you start to listen to the water your guide, and the water, it serves as a mirror, and you can see yourself in the water—the first mirror ever. And you believe in the mirror—follow the mirror and follow the water, you do what the water say, you do what the stones say, you do what the air say, and you are your own free man.
What about ice or earth or fire?
The earth grows trees and plants and flowers and roses. The earth is a life giver. You need energy of the earth. Then you need a stone because a stone is the son of the earth. Of energy power that can do anything you need. So you need stone, water, earth, incense and you burn your incense and light your incense and that’s your fire. Then you have ‘I AM.’ ‘I am an activity.’ ‘I am the earth.’ ‘I am the wind.’ ‘I am the fire.’ Then the words float out of your mouth on the wings of fire, and so you need the fire. So I am the earth, the wind, the water and the fire. I believe in the earth, and I believe in my mouth, and I believe in the wind and I believe in the fire. And in Jah my god. God of the earth, god of the wind, god of the water and god of the fire. Of all the gods, there is only one god. All the gods, you put them together and they become one god. Yes. The god is Jah that I take to the studio.
How does this fit in with the skull cave?
The skull cave? Well, you know—skull cave is our head. Our head is the skull. If we want to find the cave of the skull, the cave of the skull is over our head. Upstairs for every man. The sky is the skull is the cave. So we are under the cave of the skull. We have the skull under our head, but the cave of the skull is over our head. It is the space. The sky. The firmament. So we are the children of the skull under the skull. We do not want to crush each other bone. The machine that is the strongest color of bone or something like that—you know about that?
Have you ever used a skeleton in recording?
In recording? All is the stones. If I don’t have the stone in the studio, I have the stone in my pocket. I believe all present in stone, I believe all present in water, I believe all present in air, and I believe all present in the earth. I believe in nature.
What did you dream about last night?
My main dream is—is that God cannot dead. God who create us all—he alive. God who create us all cannot die. But! The enemies of God creation who are jealous of what God creation, of God give life and God make life—the enemies of God cannot give life. They can only take life. The devil only can take life. The devil cannot give life. So that is why Satan is so jealous of God who can give life, and Satan cannot give life. Satan get so jealous that he start to take life. Start to kill people. So that is my main dream—that Satan cannot kill if you do not choose. And Satan cannot kill if you believe God choose. That Satan can only kill the people who do not believe in God. And Satan can only destroy the people who do not believe in all of God. Because of God, Satan cannot destroy them. Or conquer them. The people who believe in God—an evil force cannot control them. And that’s my main dream. My living dream. Dream in the day, dream in the night, dream in the morning—if you believe in God, you cannot be destroyed by the devil or Satan.
What is the greatest danger to the human soul in the world right now?
The greatest danger to the human soul at the right moment is money. And it’s also money that is evil. Money have you on a trick. That if you don’t pay respect, they will do what they want to you and take away all your money and make you suffer. But let them take away all your money. You won’t suffer. You will learn to go through the earth and plant something in the earth that you can live longer—something like a food that have no bacteria. Don’t get the food that is bacteria! Natural food from the earth. And less rice and less flour. But let the money by. Money is evil. The most evil force on the planet Earth—that man going to kill a man only kill a man about money. So if you have anything about money…
Will the human race ever leave the Earth behind and go into space?
Well—like I said, the people who God choose, they have a place prepared for them. Whether it is on the Earth or in the space, God sure to have a place for them. But there is nothing profitable for them to be going in space. It is not possible for them to be flying out of the kingdom of the Earth. God is a growing power and a growing force—upstairs power skull cave protection—and I wouldn’t say no to people who need to go into space. God and the skull cave is above over our heads. God need to transfer us from the cave into the firmament and the sky to live forever and never die. And be happy with no money and there is no food—we’re just flying in the air or something like that!
Do you think the atomic bomb can destroy a human soul?
It can destroy a soul of the people’s souls who die. But it cannot destroy the souls of the people who are programmed not to die. Because God has some angels that shall not die. So if the people are killed because they are killers and they are not choosing the right God—they believe in the devil, and they are the ones that kill people and they believe in money. I’m not 100% sure if the devil is a man. The devil can be a woman. He could be a stray kitten!
Ike Turner said that life is a hole and to succeed in life is to control the hole. What do you think about that?
Life? Control the hole? Life is coming true all over the world. Where you put your cock in is life—you put your cock into the world, and the world, that is where the hole. You put life in the hole, and a little child is given life when you come in the hole and that is it.
What was the best day recording this album?
My best day is Tuesday.
Would you ever like work to with Roky Erickson?
Who is that?
A singer from Texas.
That would be wonderful. I used to like [breaks into Jimmie Rodgers’ yodel:] ‘Yodel-lay-hee! Yodel-lay-hee!’ And that western guitar. ‘Yodel-lay-yodel-lay!’
Why does water seek its own level?
A secret lover? I can tell you money’s very lovely and very nice and can do a lot of things. But having a girl or man who loves you—having a person who loves you, a daughter or son or a wife or a family who loves you—that is the secret. Love is the most reliable secret ever. Love.

—Chris Ziegler

LEE ‘SCRATCH’ PERRY WITH PACE WON AND MR. GREEN AND ABE VIGODA ON WED., SEPT. 3, AT THE EL REY, 5515 WILSHIRE BLVD., LOS ANGELES. 8 PM / $26 / ALL AGES. GOLDENVOICE.COM. LEE ‘SCRATCH’ PERRY’S REPENTANCE IS OUT NOW ON NARNACK. VISIT LEE ‘SCRATCH’ PERRY AT MYSPACE.COM/LEESCRATCHPERRY.

Concert Info: Lee “Scratch” Perry with PaceWon & Mr. Green and Abe Vigoda at the El Rey Theatre NEXT Wednesday, September 3^rd